If you could have gotten Mattel to listen to you . . .

[Bo-rilla Grodd]

Havok, even from back on Matty, you are one of my fav people on the boards, always enjoy talking to you.
So dont think Im trying to be argumentative, But Kilowog isnt an obscure character. Hes probably the most popular non human g. lantern ever, and hes even been in the justice league, anyone worth their grain of DC salt would know Kilowog.
Regardless of obscure to Not obsure argument, The whole main talk is about balance. The problem I have with an obscure character is when they have no where to go on a shelf. Thats just my opinion, but most of the obscure figures tend to be bronze age 1st issue guys. (when Dc was doing 1st issue specials to introduce new characters) Guys like Omac, Kamandi, Jemm (although I think Jemm was early eighties.). Im surprised we didnt get an Atlas or a Prez. Now, we can see looking back, that they had a love for Kirby and for the super powers/superfriends. But the latter is to a selct audience for sure, way more select than Lantern fans.
That being said, the guest lanterns was a horrible idea, meant to capitalize on the success that Dc direct was having with the Blackest Night line. I am a huge Green Lantern fan, and I found the wave unnecessary to say the least. As well as S.C. Batman, which was probably the most obscure choice ever.
Bottom line, Obscure is in the eye of the beholder, and the argument of certain characters being obscure could easily be said for Aqualad. (Sorry everyone, but there is a case for it.) The problem was not obscurity, imo, but when you have characters choices that appeal to no one. And we ALL know what characters they were. One mite rhyme with "Fat-borrow".

[Havok1891]

Yeah, I also misread the previous poster to the comment I made earlier. I saw "Sinestro Corp" but didn't see that he was talking about Batman Sinestro Corp. I apologize for that, he was right . . . that figure is way obscure. It isn't even a true figure from comics.

What is or isn't obscure gets sort of confusing because it's really determined by the reader/fan. I say Kiliwog is obscure only to the extent that most nonreaders probably don't know who he is, even with a movie appearance. But using that, almost all DC characters are obscure.

I completely agree with you, when you can't find a spot for a figure on a shelf . . . that is when you have something too obscure.

Omac & Kamandi are that. The Super Friends cartoon guys are that, unless you happen to have that in your collection. Me, I have Black Vulcan and Omac standing by themselves. I have Toyman with my villains, but it bothers me.

My collection is basically meant to be all comic book characters without redos of characters in different outfits, if I can avoid it (there are exceptions). The only reason Omac, and similar characters, being made bothered me was because:
1) There were still so many "real" comic characters to make. So many Teen Titans and JSA.
2) Common sense man, no way was Omac ever gonna sell. People can make arguments for his value in the genre, but anyone with some intelligence is gonna tell you he won't sell at $15 or whatever. And they went with that when a Connor Kent Superboy had already been tooled!?!?!? CRAZY. Similar issues with Jemm and more. Making Jemm when there is Aqualad, Speedy, Ravager, Sandman (Gaimen version), Batwoman, Jade, Vixen, Geo Force, and so many others. Some can say a character like Vixen isn't necessarily gonna sell, but . . . she would have done better than Omac. There are current comic book readers out there looking to buy what is made NOW. I know there are vintage era fans too, but I bet there aren't as many. The guys out there shelling out $3 or $4 for a New 52 title, they can probably afford to spend $18 on a plastic figure of a character they read about. I know I was looking for Johns era Teen Titans in stores when I noted DCUC, but hadn't explored the internet to find info on who had or hadn't been made or was planned. I gotta think there were and are similar buyers still.

[wally2974]

I'm diggin' what a few of you Cats are layin' down!
I see alot of valid points being made. There are still alot of teams that were never totally completed, like Mento, Doc Magnus, & the Chief. Like was also mentioned, the Freedom Fighters with the ONLY member being Uncle Sam. Phantom Lady would have been the obvious 2nd member of that team, or maybe The Ray.
There are some cool villians that were never made, like Dr. Sivana or Weather Wizard.....AND, of course, Mr. Mxyzptlk!
On the flipside, there were some heroes that were never made either. Alot of us wanted some SuperPets, like Krypto, Streaky or Ace the Bathound. There are guys like Warlord, Sgt. Rock, Shining Knight or Vigilante. Isis is a good female example. I read someone mentioned, somewhere, that only one Wonder Woman was made, over the whole course of this line. I think there were alot of collectors that never got Wonder Woman! Plus, they could have done a Golden Age version of her, like they did with that smiling Batman. Speaking of Batman, that Sinestro Corp Batman was very obscure. I'm sure most of us would have bought Bats in the more familiar black & green lantern corp duds. I've seen a few customs of Green Lantern Batman that make me want one!
We can't forget the civilians. There's Lois Lane, Jimmy Olsen, Perry White, Ma & Pa Kent. Gotham citizens, like Alfred Pennyworth, Commission Jim & Barbara Gordon(Oracle w/ wheelchair). How about a Bruce Wayne in his tuxedo or power, business suit? While we're at it, Lex Luthor in his tux or suit & tie.
I will say this. A couple of years ago, I was at NY ComicCon....I remember Scott, Toyguru from Mattel, asking me & my brother, who we'd like to see made. My brother responded with "a really cool Robin". I think we really got a great Dick Grayson Robin in wave 16. It was a huge improvement over wave 3's Robin. It was as close to the "Super Powers"-look we're ever going to get. NOt to mention. he had double elbow & knee joints. Too bad we never got a Batman with double joints. In hindsight, there were some instances where Mattel did listen to what the fans were asking for!!
Ahhh, the GLORY DAYS...Bittersweet!!!

[wally2974]

BTW....I don't consider Kilowog an obscure character, either, POOZER!!!...lol

[1987olds442]

I would have liked them to quit trying to make the line a Super-Powers 2.0 which to me was a really stupid move to me. All the the stores I went to all the Super-Powers themed figures were peg warmers. Kids are not going to want an Action figure of a character from a cartoon that has been off the air since 1986. Heck I can only vaguely remember watching the cartoon and I'm 36.

They really should have used modern designs for the characters, most of the costumes they chose for the figures were not worn by the character since the Silver Age. I never even got into reading comics until the early nineties starting with the Death of Superman. The outdated costumes/looks is what really keep me from getting into collecting them for a long time. I would occasionally cherry pick from time to time if they actually made a figure in a more modern costume like Steel, Batman, Azrael, Superman, Doomsday, etc. and most of those were from the DCSH line which actually used more modern costumes... hmmm I think that goes to my point people need to recognize the characters, and they need to be in an age group that still collects or recognizable enough where younger generations will still know them want them. By focusing on the Silver Age characters for so long I really think it hurt a lot of potential sales. If they started out with Kyle, Wally, Hook Hand Aquaman, etc. you know the characters the way they looked in the comics at the time I would have been hooked from the get go. Also I would have liked them to use proper scale take Lobo for example a character that is listed to be 6'4" tall but yet they make a figure that is 8.7" tall

I would have also made them change how they did the Young Justice line. They really missed an opportunity with this line. They should have kept with the same styling with the head sculpts of that with the main DCUC line that way they could have brought more of the DCUC collectors on board the line. I noticed that on several forums that a lot of DCUC collectors didn't buy the 6" YJ figures due to the head sculpts not fitting in with the regular DCUC figures. On the head sculpts they were way too stylized they looked more like something for a Ben 10 cartoon line, and really didn't match the aesthetics of the DCUC bodies. Also they should have sold the figures without the bases to keep the cost low to help the sales. The $20 price point drove a lot parents away especially at the time when you could buy two Deluxe Transformers for the same price as one YJ 6" figure at the time.

[Bo-rilla Grodd]

Great point on the young justice figures, they really did miss an opportunity. But remember, Collectors dont pay the bills, its mom and kids that they are after. Thats why they made figures for a kids show 20 dollars, while alienating the already built fan base of the Dc classics line. And thats why they stayed on the shelf until.....um I think I saw an Artemis yesterday.

I thought about the Jemm, Omac, Golden Pharaoh, Samurai, El dorado. And Another reason figures like that didnt do well is because they arent aesthetically pleasing. Quite frankly, they have ugly costumes. So casual fans will definitely pass on a character that they dont know, is 15-20 dollars, and doesnt look sweet. And the fact that characters like poison ivy and Mirror master didnt make it to retail and these guys did should be a haunting fact that curses the upper management of mattel with sleepless nights, as well as nightmares to all the collectors out there that were tortured with seeing abominations like this fill their local stores, mocking them while taking so much pleasure in the pain they have caused families for generations to come.
The devil didn't make me do it, OMAC DID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But man, I wish I coulda got a Chronos before it was all said and done.

[Havok1891]

Ok, I will concede that Kiliwog is not obscure. He certainly isn't now, but I am not sure I'd consider him mainstream back when his C&C was being made. But yeah, as far as DC readership goes . . . he wasn't.

They really could have stood to make a Wonder Woman again later in the line. I did get one, but I paid a good bit at a convention for her (and her feet aren't as stable as I'd like, maybe the least stable feat I have on a figure in DCUC and one of my most costly figures). And there was no reason why should couldn't have had another shot at retail. They could even have made a yellow super powers repaint variant.

Oh yeah, I forgot to consider that something like Omac was made before Poison Ivy. Yeah, that is just nuts. That he was made, and that Ivy & Connor Kent weren't made sooner . . . it makes me think they planned to put them in a sub. long before it was actually announced.

We know Kamandi was only made because Guru got him made as a reward. Guru says that no other employee had that sort of power, but some have had suggestions. I can only think Omac was a horseman's choice.

I hated Super Powers & Super Friends only figures . . . but I will say that Mattel opened that door once they made one that was never in the comics. Heck, once Cycltron was made . . . they may as well promised the rest to the fans.

I also dislike the overwhelming amount of New Gods we got. There were like 4 I wanted. The rest, for the most part, don't really make sense with my core DC world. But I am "so glad" I have Steppenwolf, Mantis, and similar figures while Doom Patrol doesn't have Chief/Mento.

I am really glad we got the Metal Men, but I don't think it was wise starting something like that (something I suspect isn't exactly hot with the youth today, and maybe not with many collectors) when Teen Titans are still needed (and Doom Patrol and some JSA). Heck, even some Legion.

[Bo-rilla Grodd]

I am really surprised about Wonder woman. Especially the fact they we got so many early 90s guys. (reign of supermen, Azbat, Artemis) I though we would get the 90s biker shorts Wonder Woman. The only two variants I woulda been ok with for the sub would of been a Golden Age superman and Golden age Wonder Woman. I guess Nightwing too.

[wally2974]

I think Mattel has more Super Powers-esque figures up their sleeve. I think, I remember their display at either SDCC or Stan Lee's Comikaze was very Super Powers inspired. I thought it was rumored that Toy Guru promised to finish the Super Powers figures in the line. I'm sure we'll find out at Toy Fair next month!
I forgot to add that I always wanted them to finish up the original Teen Titans.....Speedy, Wonder Girl, Aqualad, maybe a new Kid Flash.

I like the idea of a Mera figure to go with Aquaman, too. I always thought Aquaman needed a seahorse big enough to ride on, maybe with a seashell & pearls encusted saddle. I think the Horsemen coulda knocked it outta the park!

[Havok1891]

Yeah, I wanted a better Kid Flash as well. I gave up hope on that a while ago. I need Speedy & Aqualad before I could give that any real thought. Heck, I needed Changeling, Terra, & Jericho too.