Movies (Recommended Viewing)

[Bo-rilla Grodd]

The 2nd Phibes movie is okay. Its slow, but the first one isnt fast paced by any means, so if you liked the first one, I'd give the sequel a try. I watch both back to back, and I didnt really get fatigued till about the end, so it kept my attention for the most part.

[Caleb]

Yeah, true. A bad Vincent Price movie is still a Vincent Price movie. I'm not a fanof Last Man on Earth or that movie Price made with Elvis (Trouble With Girls?), but he's still awesome in them. I'll put Phibes 2 on the "Movies To Track Down" list.

SWL, why not just go watch a Japanese director then? If you have to force yourself through the French and Swedish films...look, I freaking hate Fellini. I tried to force myself to sit through his films - because academia tells me that I have to like them or I'm not a cinephile, which is total, utter **** - and I just spend the whole time hammering the timer button and thinking about how I'd rather be watching Hitchcock, Kurosawa, Leone. So I just go watch the movies I actually enjoy, as opposed to the movies I have to struggle to make myself finish. Maybe I'm off here, but judging by your wording...c'mon, man. If you're not big on French / Swedish stuff, you're not gonna lose cred for not watching them.

[secondwhiteline]

Hah! I was exaggerating, admittedly. It's not a cred thing for me, but more that I want to have a full, complete education in film. Which sometimes means silently hating Godard or rolling my eyes at Bergman. I mean, for better or worse, these guys are major filmmakers with wide-ranging influence, including on filmmakers I enjoy. I like having the full context, I guess.

I should be nicer to the French, though - I like Renoir, and the thrillers and crime stuff from the 50s and 60s by guys like Melville and Dassin are phenomenal.

[Caleb]

Oh, I can see that. I'd like to have a wide range of films under my viewing belt too, and I guess I can see wanting to watch them based on their influence alone. Hell, the only reason I got into Leone is because he influenced one of my favorite directors (no points for guessing who that director is). Leone is a lot more accessible than Godard (Bergman is the f***in' man, though) is, to be fair. Ah, there's nothing wrong with wanting to sit through "The Classics". You're right that a lot of the mid-to-late 1900's European filmmakers had incredible influence on a lot of filmmakers today. So I can see why you'd force yourself to sit through someone like Godard.

Hey, I'd like to have a more complete education in film as well, but there's no way I'm going to make myself sit through Fellini (or the crap Welles put out, for that matter). You're a braver man than I am.

And European crime thrillers from the 50's - the 70's are pure gold. Rififi is probably the single greatest crime film made in the 1950's, as far as I'm concerned (well, Dial M For Murder). It deserved every Academy Award it didn't get.

[secondwhiteline]

Oh man, you're not ragging on my boy Orson, are you? Have you seen Chimes at Midnight? Or been to a remote farm in LIncolnshire where Mrs. Buckley lives?

And any Bergman suggestions? I've only seen Seventh Seal, Summer with Monika, and Autumn Sonata. Of the three, Seventh Seal was the one I both liked best and thought was most ridiculous. I'm kind of curious about his other 70s/80s naturalistic stuff in Autumn Sonata's vein - all the tragedy in the subtext exploding into searing monologues with long, unblinking close-up shots. I'm not sure I LIKE that style, necessarily, but it interests me.

Fellini I'm mixed on. I do like his sort of early-mid period stuff, when was developing from another Italian neorealist into the surrealist he became. He still had a level of control over his own impulses, and a good sense of humor.

Love Rififi, but I actually like Night and the City even better where Dassin's concerned. My favorite French crime film is Touchez pas au grisbi, though. Jean Gabin is phenomenal in that.

[Caleb]

Oh, Night and the City is fantastic too. Rififi's just my personal favorite of his, but that's not saying you can really judge Dassin's work on a "better than" scale since, like Kurosawa and Leone, he's got a pretty solid body of work. Asking me to choose one of his films is like asking me to choose early Hitchcock. Can't do it, son. Kneejerk is Rififi, but I like 'em all.

Okay, Chimes at Midnight and Touch of Evil get a pass. But I honestly just don't like Orson Welles at all. Citizen Kane is phenomenally overrated - it's more of a technique achievement than it is a compelling story, for me anyway. I hate his version of Macbeth with every fiber of my being.

You're right about early Fellini. It ain't as bad as his later stuff, back when he went off the rails and turned into a surrealist artist as opposed to an actual filmmaker. I've dated a few "cinephile" girls who have tried to explain his more recent work to me, and I'm just not having it. He's like David Lynch, minus the schlock value.

Bergman suggestions? Ah, jeez. Okay, Persona makes my list of Best Films of the 60's, and it's definitely one I'd recommend checking out. Fanny and Alexander is pretty overrated and it's a huge departure from most of his other stuff, but it's still a damn good movie. I'd suggest Cries & Whispers as well, and any of the movies he made in that rapid fire couple of years with Max Von Sydow and Liv Ullman (Shame, The Passion of Anna, Hour of the Wolf). Von Sydow could act the crap out of Bergman's material. I'm partial to Dreams and Brink of Life as well, but they're not what anyone would consider essential - early stuff, before Bergman really ironed his style out, which is kind of interesting to see if you're interested in filmmakers on that level.

And if you can find his shorts on Criterion - I had a helluva time tracking them down - definitely worth watching.

[secondwhiteline]

Have you seen much of the Japanese New Wave? Some incredible gangster flicks in there. Beats every other country's New Wave period. I could never understand why the French took their inspiration from gangster films to make movies about aloof hipsters. And of course, the staple plot of the French New Wave: mercurial woman ruins the life of a troubled but brilliant young man. Gag. Godard should be forced to watch 500 Days of Summer until he apologizes for what he started.

I can dig where you're coming from with Welles. His earlier work tends to be overwrought and very invested in technical choices. That's why I like the later stuff like Chimes - the technique serves the story and has more humor to it than something like Kane or Ambersons (the latter of which I actually like quite a bit).

[Caleb]

Huh. Maybe I should dig into Welles' later work at some time. I'm kind of on a big noir kick right now - this happens to me once every few months - but I'll add his more story-oriented stuff to the list. You pretty much nailed the big reason I don't like him; technique over story. It's the same reason I don't care for Panic Room, or a majority of PTA's work. I get the need to showcase talent by some directors, and emphasize style over substance, but I'll take a good story over a pretty picture (almost) every single time. I honestly wish I liked Citizen Kane more. It's a massive technical achievement, and it's very well made, but the story is just incredibly hollow, at least to me.

Of course, I also think Starship Troopers is awesome, so my judgment might be a little impaired.

I actually haven't watched a lot of the Japanese New Wave. Just one or two films when I was in college - Nanami and Death By Hanging. I always dig Asian gangster flicks (heck, even Bollywood's efforts, which are minimal), so I'd probably enjoy them. Fire away a couple recommendations, so I can add them to my ever growing list, if you'd be so kind.

Ugh, French New Wave. Don't even get me started. The guys in one of my college film classes absolutely ate that crap up, and I was lambasted for claiming that it was all pretty darn similar. I still have a chip on my shoulder against Godard (except for Contempt, which was awesome), but you're right. Godard should be forced to not just watch 500 Days of Summer, but sit through the entirety of Woody Allen's filmography, including all the crappy films he made from 1990 onward.

[secondwhiteline]

Starship Troopers IS awesome. If someone tells you otherwise, check again - you might be talking to a 200-ton space bug. (Well, it was about that time that I noticed this Girl Scout was about eight stories tall and was a crustacean from the paleozoic era.)

Favorite Japanese gangster flicks...
Branded to Kill by Seijun Suzuki (you might want to watch the other ones first - his style is really jarring and it takes getting used to)
Pale Flower by Masahiro Shinoda
Pigs and Battleships by Shohei Imamura
Sympathy for the Underdog by Kinji Fukasaku

[Caleb]

Ha! And then that Girl Scout said...I need about tree fiddy.

Okay, I take that back. I have seen Pale Flower, and it's fantastic. The others look like they're going to be a b*tch to track down, but that's what Christmas is for. Making other people find the long lists of rare movies that I just can't make myself search for on a regular basis. Think I'll toss 'em to my mom.

I've heard Suzuki is a "Watch in order" kind of director (like Lynch and Cronenberg are), so I'll definitely take it under advisement. Good choices, man.