Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice - Ultimate Edition

[Idiot Savant]

[Ken Davis]

I have a friend and colleague who is an FX supervisor at ONE of several studios working on this film. Each studio is apparently handling different groups of characters in this.
One thing that my buddy told me what that early on, this film's script had no rudder. They were throwing all kind of crap at the walls and looking to see what stuck. A lot of it kept sliding to the floor.
There's a bit more cohesion now, but still a LOT of nonsense. The biggest problem is they are trying to make a movie that is all things to all people. Warner's has it in their head that they have to take ALL of the Marvel movies to date.......all of the interlinking parts and continuity.....and force-ram that into MoS2. That's why this features all of those characters--they are desperate to play catch-up.

The current opinion/rumour is that this movie is going to be a series of set-pieces, some spectacular, some so over-blown that you'll wonder why they didn't make a separate movie featuring them, and parts that will make you go "wtf".
Warner's is SO uptight about this movie that they can't see straight, because a LOT of stuff rides on it. They want to blow the doors off right out of the gate, and have an "Avengers" blockbuster-instead of an "Iron Man" hit.

One thing that I hope everyone curious about this film notes: There is NO positive vibe coming out from the studio. They simply are no communicating ANY genuine excitement about it.........it's all forced. Seems like everyone working on it is trying really hard to rescue it..........but despite a LOT of talent.........it's still looking undecided at this point.
This is apparent in all the articles about the movie......only the very top-dog--head of the studio--has made any real comments at all.
Everything else said from anyone else has been defensive.

[AcidDragon]

I'm gonna squish this together with the other Man of Steel 2/Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice threads that are more sub-topic-y and include a link that jumps straight to this one.

[Idiot Savant]

I have a friend and colleague who is an FX supervisor at ONE of several studios working on this film. Each studio is apparently handling different groups of characters in this.
One thing that my buddy told me what that early on, this film's script had no rudder. They were throwing all kind of crap at the walls and looking to see what stuck. A lot of it kept sliding to the floor.
There's a bit more cohesion now, but still a LOT of nonsense. The biggest problem is they are trying to make a movie that is all things to all people. Warner's has it in their head that they have to take ALL of the Marvel movies to date.......all of the interlinking parts and continuity.....and force-ram that into MoS2. That's why this features all of those characters--they are desperate to play catch-up.

The current opinion/rumour is that this movie is going to be a series of set-pieces, some spectacular, some so over-blown that you'll wonder why they didn't make a separate movie featuring them, and parts that will make you go "wtf".
Warner's is SO uptight about this movie that they can't see straight, because a LOT of stuff rides on it. They want to blow the doors off right out of the gate, and have an "Avengers" blockbuster-instead of an "Iron Man" hit.

One thing that I hope everyone curious about this film notes: There is NO positive vibe coming out from the studio. They simply are no communicating ANY genuine excitement about it.........it's all forced. Seems like everyone working on it is trying really hard to rescue it..........but despite a LOT of talent.........it's still looking undecided at this point.
This is apparent in all the articles about the movie......only the very top-dog--head of the studio--has made any real comments at all.
Everything else said from anyone else has been defensive.

That's some amazing and unreal information you were able to dig up Ken...that definitely doesn't fill me with hope for this; I know that's why Affleck brought on the Argo writer to help make he script better, but with this, it doesn't look good

[Ken Davis]

The Warner's people have been literally screamed at for not getting it. They've been told their animation division understand these characters backwards and forwards, they've sent execs to "consult" and they come back sniffing that "animation isn't really cinema". Never mind that a 2 hr animation story/script is pretty much the same animal as a 2 hr live action script.
Egos just get in the way because everyone wants to be the golden boy, rake in a billion dollars box-office and elevate their careers. So they all have their own ideas about what to do.

Case in point.......Doomsday is in this movie. That should sent a chill down your spine, but not for the reason you think.
The long-term plan is that Darkseid is the big-bad for this franchise, just like Thanos is for Marvel. Hints, references to, and glimpses of for a few movies until the big confrontation and boss-fight.

What was proposed in THIS movie is something that would have been an end-credit scene in the FIRST movie.

Zod's body is laying on a slab. He's dead. Morgue is quiet. Light flashes on a wall, something erupts..........a humongous BOOM.
And a portal opens.
And some chittering insect-like armoured humanoids come out, grab the body and retreat back through the portal. Zod would return to fight the JLA, reanimated in a 3rd or 4th film as Doomsday, under the control of Darkseid.
This is what was proposed.

Warner execs didn't have a CLUE as to who Doomsday was.
Someone handed them some comics.
You could say here that hilarity then ensued, but it was pretty nuts.
All of a sudden they wanted to "Doomsday" everything.
Forget Zod, they wanted to use Jason Mamoa and make Doomsday a "sexy guy". They wanted to do spin-off movies starring Doomsday, they wanted to have Doomsday fight Wonder Woman in her movie ( cuz he's now a "sexy" guy, remember), they wanted Doomsday to fight Shazam in HIS movie......
They wanted Doomsday to appear in all the remaining movies, as a threat that Superman and co fight, but cannot beat, and they either contain him, or he beats and kills a hero ( or a couple) and the good guys retreat and..............I have a head-ache recounting all this that I was told.

PRESUMABLY, someone came along and knocked a bit of sense into the Warner's people, because all of this has been backed off of.........except for Doomsday appearing in Dawn of Justice.

Look, this now gets into spoiler stuff........you KNOW that if Doomsday appears......it means ONE THING.
This is ONE of the thrusts of this movie, which already has THREE thrusts it's trying to put out.
The second thrust is Dark Knight Returns---specifically the scene with a armoured Batman punching the lights out of Superman.

The third is the intro of the Justice League, that either just shows the players, or establishes the circumstances that cause them to join together. This is not a "keep it simple, stupid" approach in movie storytelling, and any time you are not "kissing" it, you are asking for trouble due to unnecessary complexity. You've got three origins to set-up, establish, play out and then resolve in some way, or carry over for later resolution.

This is the biggest fear about this movie and this whole franchise--that they are making something so convoluted that all the spectacle and eye-candy isn't going to save it. It'll drown under it's own weight because..........well, it's too urgent and TOO LOADED. Warner Bros. tripped in developing their slate. Marvel has the field, and DC THINKS they can catch up.
A LOT of observers are saying they are going about it all wrong, but they are holding their breath just in case they can pull a hat-trick out of it.

Here's the last thought that was conveyed to me: If Dawn of Justice bombs, and I mean really bombs, and then Wonder Woman bombs as badly.........and they both well could......it'll sour Warner Bros on the comics for good. They are expecting this to be like printing money.
They've been outright confused as to why the last Batman movie, and the last two Superman movies didn't move God-level amounts of merchandise. If the movie and the merch blows out, the controversial idea is that Warners will entertain the unthinkable: Selling off DC. Or partnering with someone else to manage these characters.

YES, THAT is who this is leading to.
It's talk, it's spurious ideas tossed about in board rooms, back-ups and fall-backs in case of.........

And it really ain't good.
Age of ULTRON is going to do insane business for Marvel/Disney. Record-breaking. Billion-dollar box-office. Marvel is Disney's latest golden goose. So most of Marvel's slate will appear, but.........a massive fail at Warners on their superhero franchise will make EVERYONE re-think the risks. All it will take is ONE falter, and confidence will be lost. Execs will second-guess things and try to assert the wrong kind of control. That's when weak movies get made, when they start bombing. What follows is the death of a cinematic genre.

And they will never blame themselves, instead they say that "audiences lost interest".

This is all HEARSAY passed along to me. Grains of salt should accompany consumption.
Don't lose faith. Yet.
We'll all see what transpires.

[Doctor Fate]

That's what I'm afraid of - Ken! ... of which it is a sad state of affairs over at Warners / DC Comics.

[Doctor Fate]

I was talking to my nephew who is a comic book movie guru and he said to me that Warners Bros have no vision of making Superhero Genre because everyone wants a piece of the action. Having said that I feel that there are constant bickering over there and because of that not everyone is on the same page.

With that in mind, the future of Warners Bros / DC Comics looks mighty bleak and they need a strong individual to get everybody in line and stick with the basics (Comic Books for Resources) of which my nephew thinks that Warners Bros have no interest in reading them to get the understanding of the character itself.

Batman v Superman will define the future of Warners Bros / DC Comics films - if the movie flops there will be no JLA Movie, No Wonder Woman Movie, and no other movies because they just don't get it right. That's what my Nephew thinks and I believe in him.

Really Sad Future at Warners Bros.

[Ken Davis]

Warners is chasing this thing, not leading with it. they didn't really think there was any box office potential in the DC stables outside of Batman. Superman "failed" when Superman Returns brought in lukewarm box office, and they didn't expect to do anything else with the character in live-action again.
The animated stuff is it's own separate kingdom, and they do modestly well on DtV--enough so that they keep making them.

But they look hungrily at what happened with Marvel Studios, RDJ and Iron Man, because THAT film really set the stage for the intertwined, cohesive film series franchise. Warner realized they had the SAME THING in the DC comics......and they though all you have to do it tie stuff in to each other, and movie-goers will throw money at you.
They don't really get that Marvel isn't playing the same hand. Marvel films are bright, hip, snappy, charming, charismatic, likeable actors, likeable characters, appealing stuff. Every film hits a heroic vibe or tempo at some point.

Warners has offered us........dark, sombre, border-line bleak, maybe a bit dull....the only REALLY entertaining character they've fielded was Heath Ledger as the Joker. There's been no really heroic character stepping forward...yet. Things have been.......well, dismal.

Now, this isn't a Marvel vs DC rant. DC has all the elements they need to equal or surpass Marvel in this. They've got the characters, they've got the premises. It's how they are being managed that is the problem.

I was talking to buddy of mine about this; that none of the DC heroes have really triumphed yet. Oh, Bruce Wayne kinda/sorta did when he "retired" at the end of Dark Knight Rises--but it doesn't count because they drop the mantle on a nothing character right at the end.
If Warners took a step-back, did ONE thing............during the Dawn of Justice, they started playing subtle riffs from John Williams score for Superman, and then at the end...........gave us the full dealio--then you'd reaffirm Superman's signature. There needs to be something to cheer about for Superman........and there's nothing here. THAT is the keep difference between the Marvel and DC superhero movies. Warners had this in the very first Superman movie......loads to cheer about then......but then they dropped that for dark and dismal ( or dopey).
They just gotta wake up and do something with what they have.

[Idiot Savant]

Jeez; don't know what to think any more...I had so much hope for these movie franchises and now if this information doesn't change before showtime, it seems this may be the last opportunities we have for DC Comics movies.

Truly sad and upsetting...but on the flip side, if WB does sell DC, Disney has enough room under their umbrella...

[packerbacker180]

After Man of Steel I had no hope for DC at Warner. That movie was pretty much the antithesis of everything a Superman film should be. I couldn't even finish it in one sitting.

Yawn of Justice, amirite? What, kids don't like dark and brooding characters in drab colors on their screen? Really?